JobRack Interview #002 – Martijn Reintjes – Outsourcing For Professional Growth


Download audio

I tried to make a rule that everything I do I shouldn’t do myself and I break that rule every day at least time…[chuckle] but I’m working on that. I would suggest everyone try to outsource as much as they can because that will speed up their personal growth and let the company grow.
[feature_box style=”1″ only_advanced=”There%20are%20no%20title%20options%20for%20the%20choosen%20style” alignment=”center”]

martin-testing-agencyMartijn Reintjes is a CEO of a business-testing agency. They do A/B testing or development of A/B split tests for clients that are mostly agencies or bigger e-commerce companies.

Since the whole team is working remotely, he enjoys traveling and working from all parts of the globe.


Whether you run a small business or a big e-commerce company, you most certainly cannot keep it on the right track without proper testing.

Testing.Agency found here a gap in the market and started providing A/B testing services for clients who are in need of it (and, who is not?) but lack resource for this. They keep a close eye on the quality of code and the implementation of different testing tools.

Now, since running a business is never an easy thing, Martijn talks about many business processes that had to be outsourced and optimized. Outsourcing helped free up more time to people and have evenly distributed focus, which is sometimes crucial.

How does he let go of the things and outsource? Where does he find quality workforce? What he thinks is crucial for making bigger numbers? How important is it to find a gap in the market?

Now, the biggest challenge has been knowing when and how to let go and outsource processes. Some may claim that it can be a little scary too. However, besides the possibility of gaining more time and focusing on other things, Martijn talks about the importance of outsourcing in terms of a-must-thing for both – professional and personal growth.

[feature_box style=”31″ title=”Full%20Interview%20Transcript” alignment=”center”]


Hey, there this is Neil Napier from and today I’m joined by Martijn Reintjes. I’ve got Martijn here with me on the call and him and I we’re in the mastermind some time ago discussing about how we can collectively improve our businesses through systemization to getting clients the right way and many different things. So Martijn, if it’s okay with you I’m going to pass it over to you. And if you can give us a quick introduction about who you are, what your business is like that’d be great.

Martijn: Yeah, sure, you know. Yeah my, my, well I run a business-testing agency. We do A/B testing or a development of A/B split test for clients. Clients are mostly agencies or bigger e-commerce companies who want a lot of A/B test on their websites but they lacked resources to build them mostly quite complex java codes and we help them with them. They just tell us what they wanted to test and we take care of the codes and the implementation of different testing tools.

Neil: Got it.

Martijn: Yeah. We do that in a with completely remote team so we got guys in the Philippines, Indonesia, Paraguay, Czech Republic, Romania and there’s others. And, yeah, they all work together via different online tools and yeah it’s been fun, right. Setting that all up.

Neil: Interesting. So it’s a very diversified set up. I mean you have people working for you almost all over the world, which is good. Now, I’m curious why did you start a testing agency like this? I mean there are others out there as well. What sets you apart from everyone else?

Martijn: Yeah, those are two different questions usually. Why did I start it? It is more from a standpoint I really love my, my freedom and my freedom to move around, to travel. That’s why I really want, didn’t want to create a company with a set office. So, that’s why we’re globally remote. And the company set up online so we don’t have an office, we don’t need an office. And we can work perfectly fine without one. We just need a proper Wi-Fi. And yeah, why testing agency, why the niche of A/B testing? It’s because we, me and my partners we saw a gap – there are big need resources for test developments.

I guess that’s right now simple headline change or image, image changes, but if you want to test really cool stuff like some new interactions in your sales funnel or ERM, check out process, yeah, you need to do some more advance stuff.  And yeah, the big problem, hurdle there is that there is not enough or not enough skilled developers there to work with, to work on that.

So, we decided well let’s be that resource people just tells what to test and we can create it for them. And that goes on like prototypes that weigh or just order an A/B test and we systemize everything to make it as smooth as possible the whole process how it should be done. From getting everything to doing proper quality assurance and delivering a test so that’s, we stepped into that gap of not enough resources.

Neil: Interesting. And it’s interesting you said systemization so I’m guessing, you know, you have like a standard. Do you have procedures? Do you have extra piece now that you implement? So, if I was to come to you and say hey I need help with this you know how would the process go, like how would you involve your team into this process?

Martijn: It’s mostly set up. We have clients’ dashboards where you could fill in a briefing form. So you just tell us what you want to get done and we systemized it in a form so to make sure there is nothing gets forgotten. So we have all the information that we need to develop this test, which it says diverse as well of course.

The page 1 it says what you want to change. You will get some prefix there but also if there are some checking codes you want to do some click events stuffs like that so that also taken care of by the form. The form then gets sent to a channel board. And, there it’s picked up by our staff and in general a ticket gets worked on by two people. There’s the ticket owner who does the clients communication and he checks if everything is clear on the briefing if nothing is missing.

He corresponds if there are any changes. He corresponds delivery time and estimated cost to the client. From there he works together with the developer to implement that, to create and implement the codes. And the ticket owner also double-checks the work of the developer for quality assurance and if it follows our code standards.

Neil: Okay, nice. So you know it sounds like at the moment everything can be done without you. So how much time are you spending in your business right now every…

Martijn: On the developments part like the whole client’s communication that’s, I’m totally out of the process. That runs without me.  And since that has been running smoothly for last couple of months, and since then I shifted my time to hiring more people and staff to set up a more focusing on the marketing-sales process since we, I’ve been working mostly from warm connections in the industry.  And we are now what we now expand our services to more, well more to the world and to the rest but we don’t know already so now I’m setting up marketing campaign for that channels for doing, seeing if we can do some cold outreach.

Neil: Okay, interesting. So was these all these your vision to kind of take yourself out of the operations?

Martijn: Yeah, I’m, I don’t really like… Yeah, I really love this basically. I really love doing new things.

Neil: Okay

Martijn: So I’m really like sales, sales part is quite new to me so I’m reading a lot about it. I’m asking a lot of people how to best do this. I’m trying some stuffs out, that’s really interesting for me. And that’s what I like about building a business because there’s still many facets of the business that has to be taken care of. I love the diversity of that. So that’s I’m really happy in my role in testing agency. And to, yeah, to keep just rediscovering new things and learning new things. Yeah like that.

Neil: Okay, no, that’s very good. I think most entrepreneurs have this habit of you know want to try different things and I think I can only work once you systemized things to the point that they can work without you.  So I’m glad that you choose that level.

Martijn: Exactly.

Neil: Nice, and… yeah go ahead

Martijn: Yeah right now I’m trying to build that same team or a similar process of team, the development team we build now. Now we need to build more marketing team and I’m yeah trying to find people who will get my needs

Neil: Got it.

Martijn: So it’s the same process but different line of business.

Neil: Different skill set. And I think I also agree that a lot of people you said that you are experimenting with marketing at the moment. You’re reading up everything you can. A lot of people make this mistake when they are outsourcing or hiring is that they don’t do the process themselves and they expect someone to come in and basically just run with it. And the problem with that is that if you have an experience such yourself you can really teach it to someone else. So I think it’s always a good habit if you’re trying out something new in your business. Do it yourself once or twice make sure you understand it and then bring someone and teach them that process, would you agree?

Martijn: Yes and no, it depends what your goals are in this. Learning something new is tough and takes a lot of time.

Neil: True

Martijn: And it depends on whom you want to hire. I’ve spoken with some really, really good marketers, marketing people. I was sure that if I hired those people they would take care of the whole marketing strategy and implementation. And I wouldn’t have to worry about that. I didn’t go those people because they were out of my budget for now and I also kind of want to do it myself, which is a bit of trap. And but it’s a bit of trap for me, but it depends if you hire high-skilled professionals.

You don’t have to learn it if you want to be involve yourself and hire less experienced people for less money, then well, yeah, yes you have to learn it yourself and then you have to teach those people because you’ll be training them to do the work then. So it can go both ways. And depends on your personal what you want and what you want for your business. I think if you hire the right people, you move faster but it will cost you more money.

Neil: True

Martijn: So it’s high-risk.

Neil: Yeah it’s a balancing act. I think.

Martijn: Exactly

Neil: Yeah, cool. Now I know you also use JobRack, you know, in the past, you have made a few posts there to find people. Has that been good for you, were you able to find the kind of people you wanted?

Martijn: Yes and no. There I, basically I use both Jobrack and Upwork at the moment and I funnel them through my personal channel board where I ask them to apply, to basically fill in a form and that goes to my channel boards so I keep track of all of my possible hires in one place. I like JobRack for the focus on Eastern Europeans and that you don’t have too much spammy applicants like you have in Upwork. And, in general, that’s a more mature platform.

Upwork has mostly on selecting the applicants and getting more details and a lot of them, as well as in both platforms a lot of the applicants are not really forthcoming with information about themselves in their profiles. That are really short profiles and that’s not really useful to assess if someone can do the work. It means, more basically if they haven’t completely filled out their profile then they definitely don’t have the right attitude to work at my company at least because that’s me that’s faulty process there’s new stuff halfway, but that’s, yeah.

Neil: Yeah that’s true and you know, I’ll tell you this; I spoke to someone else yesterday about this as well. But we are now developing a webinar series for all the new job seekers that come in where we’ll be working with them live on call to basically show them what needs to be done and then helping them if they want to apply for a certain job but they don’t know how to go about it. So, we understand that both you know client, the employer side is important but also at the same time, it is important to educate and bring up the jobs seekers as well.  And basically show them how to use the platform to their advantage. So yeah, that’s in the works.

Martijn: Cool.

Neil: But also said about the applicant filtering process as well. Again, that is something we made changes to very recently but I know Michael who’s another employee came to us and give a few recommendations that we will implement as well in the next couple of months or so. And you know that’s, since we’re always open to feedback. So thanks to, thanks for letting us know about that as well.

Martijn: Cool, yeah, no problem. Always.

Neil: Yeah, one last question for you Martijn, do you have any advice for people who are nervous about seeking help or outsourcing. Because you know most people are rather control freaks for lack of better work. They wanted to do everything themselves. They don’t trust someone else. So do you have any advice for them if they are trying to build a business?

Martijn: Do I have advice? Yes, tons of advice.

Neil: One thing, maybe.

Martijn: One thing to well whether it’s scary to start working with someone but in general it’s always better to not do something yourself and let someone else do it than doing it yourself. And I continuously struggle with this as I can do a lot of stuff myself but it takes time and that time is better spend on other stuff. It’s for me I tried to make a rule that everything I do I shouldn’t do myself and I break that rule every day at least time…[chuckle] but I’m working on that. I would suggest everyone try to outsource as much as they can because that will speed up their personal growth and let the company grow.

Neil: Okay, no that’s great. I think so basically people shouldn’t be scared of outsourcing. They have to let go in the beginning but it is something that will pay good rewards long term.

Martijn: We should trust that it will pay good rewards that’s, although it’s scary, just trust it will be better. But also it will be a learning curve to outsource stuff and to let go of things. And one thing I realized or I had to learn was that my way is not the only way. So if something was handled not exactly like how I would have done it that’s okay because the end result was that it was at least good enough to continue with other thing or that got done. Because something that has not been done at all is way worse than something that is done, but, maybe for 80%

Neil: Got it. That makes sense. Okay.